Dennis Martin: Gentleman & Warrior

Rico: First thing Den, I would like to sincerely thank you for taking the time to answer those few questions for our readers. Could you please introduce yourself ?

Dennis Martin: I’m Dennis Martin, from Liverpool, England, and I’m delighted to be interviewed here by Rico

R: Let’s start with your early years, what kind of kid were you, back in the days?

D.M.: I had a normal upbringing. Never really interested in sport, such as football, while at school. I discovered Judo at about age fifteen, and that was the start of everything I’ve done since.

R: When did you start to run the doors in Liverpool?
In the beginning, was it the job that you really wanted to do, or was it just for the money?

D.M.: The first security job I did was strictly for the money. To earn some cash for Christmas I worked on the door at an all-night Indian restaurant in the city centre, ensuring that no customer left without paying.
After that I was asked to fill in on the Blue Angel Club, [which was Liverpool’s first real nightclub, owned by Alan Williams who was the first manager of the Beatles]. That led to regular work there, before I started working on the Victoriana with Terry O’Neill. Then the job became more fun and more educational.

R: Working with guys like Tommy Mac, Gary Spiers and Terry O’Neill was obviously a great experience, both as a doorman and as a martial artist, but it seemed to be a lot of fun too, am I right?

D.M.: Looking back, there were lots of laughs. Terry, in particular, was always up to something. Working with both Gary and Terry was like watching a comedy double act! We were friends, who also spent most of our time together when not working too.

R: Speaking about Terry and his lightning fast kicks, I think he is the only living proof that high kicks could be effective in a street fight.
In your opinion, why could he make those techniques work, whilst other very skilled martial artist and doormen, failed to use them in that context?

D.M.: I think it was two main factors. Firstly he had absolute physical mastery of the technique. The strike was effortless, very natural, and delivered on a high line. Terry could lift his knee right up to his own ear as he kicked. Secondly, Terry had the fastest brain for processing threat information. In current terms his OODA Loop was fast and efficient. As his adversary conceived the idea of fighting he would be unconscious!
Really, you had to see it to believe it. I can still remember the first time I saw Terry knock a guy out, it’s seared in my mind’s eye.

R: It seemed that in the beginning, your training in karate gave you a tremendous edge over “regular” fighters.
Now, everyone (and his dog) is training in MMA, Muay Thai and the likes.
In you opinion, how do this fact affect the bouncing game?

D.M.: We do indeed encounter more people trained in various methods, and, increasingly MMA is the choice. However, in our towns and cities the biggest threat is still knives and firearms. The use of weapons in gang attacks has made front-line security much more dangerous that when I first started. I still work regularly in the city centre and it’s a great incentive to keep training hard.

R: You’ve worked on many occasions in the close protection field as a bodyguard, how did it change your training habits?

D.M.: In close-protection the priority is to protect the VIP, what we call “third party protection”, which is a completely different orientation than self-protection.

R: Coming from a traditional Karate background, why did you start to train (and teach) WWII Combatives?

D.M.: This follows on from the previous question. When we started the first ever commercial bodyguard training course, back in 1985, we looked at a system for training the guys, who had a variety of backgrounds and experience, including top martial artists, soldiers, and complete novices. I turned to the works of WE Fairbairn, to construct an outline syllabus. Lofty Wiseman and I then put together a detailed syllabus, and he too included much from the WW-2 methods. Remember, the requirements were similar, a varied training group, with limited training time, who needed a system that could be used spontaneously, and fully integrated with the firearms and other personal weapons.

R: What I always liked about “Combatives” mentality, is the fact that it melt different aspects of training (empty-hand, knife, stick, firearms, first care, tactics, etc…) into one “integrated” method.
At the ACDS, our philosophy is to train for efficiency “from 0 to 1000m”.
How important is that “integration” concept in your training?

D.M.: It’s essential, it’s the core concept of CQB. Rather than separate specialities we integrate the training to produce what we call the “seamless transition” between force options.

R: We focus a lot of our training on the knife, mainly because it’s the most widely used weapon in the streets, and probably one of the most dangerous.
How do you cover this particular topic in your training?

D.M.: As far as defence against the knife the best system I’ve encountered is the G.U.N. System, as taught by Gary Klugiewicz of Milwaukee County Sheriff’s Department. This system was developed for use by deputies assigned to the jail, which is a high edged weapon threat environment. The officers don’t carry firearms within the jail, so the conditions are similar to that facing the general public here in Europe where CCW is rare.
We also teach the use of the blade for those guys who have a need, based mainly on WW-2 methods.

R: I know you are, with Marcus Wynne, one of the pioneers of the use of NLP in the combatives training field.
How were you introduced to this concept, and how do you think it could improve combative training?

D.M.: I visited the training centre at Marana, Arizona, when Marcus was training the Federal Air Marshals, and he told me about NLP then. Back home my good friend Tommy McNally, who had introduced Terry O’Neill to door work, loaned me the book “Unlimited Power” by Tony Robbins, and I was hooked. Eventually, I was certified as an NLP Practitioner by founder Richard Bandler.
Neural-based training works with “state” so is highly effective in training for self-protection, as we install the requisite mental state of acting under intense stress.
Marcus created the Mind’s Eye Shooting Program, and I helped with some of the drills and exercises. We have taught this program on three continents and the results are, frankly, amazing. Shooting is highly quantifiable, as you know. We score both speed and accuracy, so can tell if the method produces results, and it does, beyond all expectation. This gives us the basis for using similar concepts in less quantifiable, more subjective training, such as unarmed combatives.
By the way, Marcus will be presenting the Minds Eye Shooting Program in Scandinavia later this year.
Readers can contact me via my website at http://www.cqbservices.com/ if I can help them in any way.

R: Dennis, thanks again for this interview and for that great book!


Notes:

(1) M.M.A. : Mixed Martial Arts, generic name given to the « free-fight » type sports.

(2) Major William E. Fairbairn, considered as the founder of Close-Combat
An excellent article by Phil M. (aka TheBristolBloke) on Dennis website :
http://www.cqbservices.com/?page_id=59

(3) John « Lofty » Wiseman
Living legend of the non-less legendary 22 S.A.S. (Special Air Service), « Lofty »’s still teaching his encyclopaedic knowledge on survival at Trueways Survival School (http://www.survival-school.org/Default.aspx?tabid=372 )

(4) Gary Klugiewicz
One of Gary’s article on the G.U.N. (Grab Undo Neutralize) system: http://www.policeone.com/columnists_internal.asp?view=94340&vid=102828

(5) Concealed Carry Weapon (C.C.W.) is a generic name for the permit of carrying a weapon by a citizen. In most case the weapon has to be carried concealed, hence the name.

(6) Well-known “Operator”, successful writer, renowned instructor, N.L.P. specialist, … Meet Mr. Marcus Wynne : http://www.marcuswynne.com/

(7) Richard Bandler is the co-founder of N.L.P. with John Grinder.
His website : http://www.richardbandler.com/